The Killer Bacteria
Educating the Public About E.coli
S U
M M A R Y
Rainer Mueller, parent turned activist, whose son died after his
exposure to E.coli contaminated food.
September 13 —
Health
authorities say the E.coli outbreak in upstate New York could be one of
the worst ever. The E.coli bacteria can be found anywhere, usually in foods. This time, officials say this outbreak started with some contaminated rainwater.
Rainer Mueller of Oceanside, Calif., lost his 13-year-old son, Eric Jackson Mueller, in 1993 after the teen ate an E.coli-contaminated hamburger. Mueller now lobbies for better food safety and inspection. Mueller joined us today to discuss his work to educate the public about the dangers of E.coli.
Moderator at 2:01pm ET
Welcome Rainer Mueller.
Rainer Mueller at 2:01pm ET
Greetings.
Brad Palmer from [206.24.101.7] at 2:02pm ET
Does E.coli have a more harsh effect on the young more so than older people?
Rainer Mueller at 2:03pm ET
By older people you must include those over 65. Both the young children, 10 and younger and the older, 65 and above, are the most susceptible. Plus those that are presently fighting another illness are also extremely susceptible.
DARIN from [209.12.169.55], at 2:04pm ET
I find it strange that we hear about these outbreaks in the U.S., one of the toughest regulators of food, but we don't hear about these things in poorer, underdeveloped countries. Why?
Rainer Mueller at 2:05pm ET
Two reasons: When these "underdeveloped" countries slaughter their animals, they do it one at a time, not via mass production. And many of these countries do not eat hamburger (ground beef), which is one of the leading causes of E.coli poisoning.
Sue Hinkle from [205.188.193.24], at 2:06pm ET
How did individuals ingest the contaminated rainwater? Washing of utensils, personal washing, cooking with well water, etc.?
Rainer Mueller at 2:07pm ET
Run off from a dairy or another cattle facility probably contaminated the well water. If the water is not heated to 165 degrees for 15 seconds, the pathogenic E.coli bacteria are not killed.
Phil Koonce from newburypk-01rs13-14rt.ca.dial-access.att.net at 2:08pm ET
This is a message to support you and the families in New York. My 2-year-old son contacted the 0157 strain this past June. He developed H.U.S. and was on dialysis for 3 weeks. We feel blessed that he is alive and our prayers are with all of the families.
Rainer Mueller at 2:08pm ET
First off, you are very fortunate that your child survived. Regrettably you will now need to monitor your child for years to come for kidney, lung, and other organ damage. Good luck.
Gale Chan from san.rr.com at 2:09pm ET
Is E.coli more prevalent in beef than
in other livestock?
Rainer Mueller at 2:09pm ET
E.coli is most prevalent in beef (almost exclusively). It has also been found in sheep, as well as deer, which apparently came in contact with infected cattle or their feces.
mikezipkovitch@hotmail.com from 245.67.176.losangeles1.level3.net at 2:10pm ET
If the doctors had treated your son with antibiotics right away would he have had better chances to fight off the infection? Did the doctors improperly diagnose him initially?
Rainer Mueller at 2:13pm ET
I believe that treatment with antibiotics is contraindicated for E.coli poisoning, since it is when the bacteria die they release the toxins which produce hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS), for which there is no cure. Yes, my son was misdiagnosed at first, as having appendicitis, and his appendix was removed. Then he was diagnosed as having amebiasis, for which he was given the powerful drug Flagyl. Both of those procedures were detrimental to his health, and may have hastened his deterioration and eventual death.
Art Hamilton from [152.163.197.177], at 2:13pm ET
How can we the public learn more about the E.coli bacteria?
Rainer Mueller at 2:14pm ET
Well, for starters, look at my website at: http://www.ericsecho.org. It offers a wealth of information regarding the disease, treatment, and legislative work.
Outraged American from [208.30.35.170] at 2:15pm ET
Sir, my condolences for your loss.
Will you be actively pursuing changing the way that America polices food safety????
Rainer Mueller at 2:17pm ET
In 1996 I was on the federal committee that changed the meat inspection laws of this country which were enacted in 1906 and still in use, to modern HACCP (Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Point) implementation. These regulations were originally used by NASA for the astronauts (We couldn't have them get food poisoning in space.), and were signed into law by President Clinton in 1996.
sgtill@rocketmail.com from knology.net at 2:17pm ET
When someone has been infected with E.coli, what is the most effective treatment?
Rainer Mueller at 2:20pm ET
Synsorb PK from a Canadian company, Synsorb, appears to be the best drug to give to those who are infected. It is primarily made up of a sacchride of sugar, clay, and charcoal. For some odd reason the E.coli bonds with the sugar, it is gathered by the clay, and the charcoal neutralizes the toxins. Then the concoction is naturally eliminated from the body. The best thing about this drug is that it is harmless to those who aren't sick.
Destiny from disney.com at 2:20pm ET
Mr. Mueller, what do you recommend parents (and everyone) do to avoid E.coli danger when eating out?
Obviously we can't rely 100% on health inspections.
Thank you!
Rainer Mueller at 2:22pm ET
The best defense is to remain vigilant. Do not eat hamburger meat that hasn't been fully cooked. Regrettably we can no longer afford to eat raw or pink hamburger meat. With foods like lettuce it is difficult to isolate, since lettuce is not cooked. It appears that irradiation may be the answer for products like this.
Amy from tivoli.com at 2:24pm ET
Will cooking ground beef to well done effectively kill the E.coli bacteria?
Rainer Mueller at 2:24pm ET
As long as it reaches 165 degrees for 15 seconds, yes, it will kill the bacteria.
Cassandra from [38.180.178.20] at 2:24pm ET
Must you have diarrhea, to consider the thought of having E.coli? Or would flu-like symptoms and severe abdominal pain be enough to be concerned?
Rainer Mueller at 2:25pm ET
Yes, flu-like symptoms can be the beginning of an episode. In fact, many people are food poisoned, but they mistake it for the flu. If you've ever had the "one-day-flu" you've been food poisoned, since there is no such thing as "one-day-flu."
Toni Shaw from cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net at 2:26pm ET
Good Morning Rainer,
In a recent edition of the Riverside, CA Press-Enterprise, a columnist addressed a senior citizen's complaint that he could no longer get a medium rare hamburger from his favorite fast food restaurant. The columnist responded with a statement, something to the effect of: If a 77-year-old man wants a medium rare hamburger, then give it to him. I was outraged at his irresponsibility as a journalist. Do you believe that the public is still, for the most part, uninformed as to the dangers of E.coli, or have they just become complacent?
Rainer Mueller at 2:30pm ET
It appears that the only time people are now concerned with E.coli is when there is a major outbreak. Yet, every year 20,000 people get very sick, and 500 die from this food-borne illness. It is when only one person dies that it does not become a major news story. What has happened in New York has once again focused necessary attention on this.
I believe that there are many older Americans who die of food poisoning, but are never diagnosed. Sometimes you hear stories of an older American who was perfectly healthily one week, and then just got very sick and died. Many people say, "it was their time", but looking at the Scottish outbreak of 1996, I'm betting it was food poisoning.
Barb Templeton from [12.72.199.33], at 2:31pm ET
Are there any types of federal inspections of dairy/cattle farms in place now to prevent run-offs like what happened in Illinois?
Rainer Mueller at 2:32pm ET
I do not know of any federal laws regarding run-off. There may be some, as well as state and local laws, but I really haven't ever heard of any being thoroughly investigated or prosecuted.
Brenda Sonneborn from [208.250.120.41], at 2:32pm ET
Rainer, so sorry about your loss. Doesn't the government subsidize the cattle industry a great deal? I believe the cattle industry is very powerful and carries a huge political influence, e.g. the old four food groups. It seems the public at large is very ignorant about factory farming. Do you think maybe there is some interest in not educating the public?
Rainer Mueller at 2:34pm ET
When I started working to change our food inspection laws, it appeared that we were fighting the powerful cattle industry every step of the way. Fortunately the Clinton administration and the American people were behind us. Now the largest slaughterhouses in the country use the most sophisticated methods to attempt to eliminate E.coli and other pathogens. Unfortunately, some of the smaller facilities cannot afford the technology that would make them as good as these large companies.
John Daley from [206.71.169.96], at 2:35pm ET
Good Morning, Rainer,
Should we be concerned about eating at home since food poisoning occurs at home much more than in restaurants?
Rainer Mueller at 2:36pm ET
Yes, it's true that people can get sick at home as well as when eating out. This goes back to something I mentioned earlier, when someone gets sick at home, it doesn't make the news, but if there is an outbreak tied to a restaurant it does.
Tom Thompson from dnpt1.occa.home.com at 2:37pm ET
Is there any way for a consumer to "test" food at restaurants or stores, or even at home for presence of E.coli?
Rainer Mueller at 2:38pm ET
I believe some companies have developed a test, but the problem with this (and the meat industry is also plagued by this) is that as few as 5 cells is enough to sicken a child, and one million of these E.coli cells can dance on the head of a pin. Finding the exact place where these few cells are is practically impossible.
Dave from oracle.com at 2:39pm ET
Mr. Mueller,
I am sorry to hear about the loss of your son. Parents are naturally protective of their children, but what can we do to protect against food contamination? It seems like a visit to a fast food place is not very desirable lately with all the news about sickness and death associated with the foods we eat. In our own home we can at least have control over food preparation, but we are at the mercy of restaurants. What do you suggest as effective ways to minimize food contamination? Should our government support testing of all meat sources? What do you see as the best bang for our tax dollars?
Rainer Mueller at 2:40pm ET
The best thing that I have seen is irradiation. It is controversial in some circles, but we are currently irradiating spices. Until we find the cause of E.coli and eliminate it from the planet, we should use every tool available to us. I have seen and tasted irradiated meat, and I support its use.
Cheryl from us.dell.com at 2:41pm ET
What can we do to help the effort to improve food inspection and processing procedures?
Rainer Mueller at 2:42pm ET
We should never allow food safety legislation sit on the back burner at any time. Work toward supporting candidates who share your views regarding food safety.
Brad Palmer from [206.24.101.7] at 2:42pm ET
Is it more prevalent in certain states or countries than others?
Rainer Mueller at 2:43pm ET
E.coli O157:H7 is prevalent in the United States, Canada, and Europe. E.coli O11 (there are 140 different strains of mutant E.coli) is most prevalent in Australia.
Carnivore from [159.21.18.88], at 2:44pm ET
While I am of course sympathetic to your loss, I don't know how alarmist we should be getting about this. Here in California, I believe, in some places they are beginning to require hamburgers to be cooked all the way through, and requiring the eggs in Caesar salad dressing be partially cooked (pretty much ruining the dish). As an adult, I feel I ought to be able to take my chances every now and then.
Rainer Mueller at 2:46pm ET
It is a fine line between personal freedom and personal safety. My son died because he ate a hamburger that was not thoroughly cooked, he did not ask for his burger that way, and he surely did not want to die the agonizing death he did, dissolving from the inside out. What you do in your own home is your decision, but I believe that restaurants should serve food that is safe.
WYZA WILLIAMS from [207.54.173.57], at 2:46pm ET
Do you have to think twice before eating a hamburger, or do you eat hamburgers? There is always the possibility of a hamburger being E.coli-contaminated, even now. Am I right?
Rainer Mueller at 2:49pm ET
Yes, I still eat hamburgers; I love them. But I make sure that they are thoroughly cooked. Knowing the dangers, and knowing what can be done to minimize those dangers has helped me. The American beef industry has worked very hard to provide us with a safe hamburger. No, it's not perfect and nothing is; but it is much better than it was just a few years ago. Lately the outbreaks have not been meat related; which speaks volumes for what we can accomplish when we work together.
Mike from [208.249.221.98] at 2:49pm ET
How do you know what's safe and what's not, especially when you can't see it, like what happened in NY?
Rainer Mueller at 2:50pm ET
To be completely safe, never ingest something you do not know the source of. Yes, it is like playing Russian roulette, but try to put the odds in your favor. When in doubt, don't eat it!
Janet Blair from [152.163.194.184], at 2:50pm ET
What diagnostic tests should be done to rule out an E.coli infection?
Rainer Mueller at 2:52pm ET
Currently there are two rapid tests on the market, one by Meridian Diagnostics, called EHEC, I believe. This supercedes the old MacConkey-Sorbitol test which took 72 hours to grow a culture in a petri dish. 72 hours is too long to wait. The EHEC test can give extremely accurate results within four hours.
Moderator at 2:53pm ET
Rainer, is there enough legislation regarding food inspection on the books? And how seriously has government taken this problem?
Rainer Mueller at 2:55pm ET
From 1906 (the time of the Wright Brothers) to 1996 (the time of supersonic jet flights), the meat inspection laws of this country remained unchanged. Imagine if we would be using the flying rules at the time of Wright Brothers with supersonic jets! One of the issues that needs to be addressed is not just stringent legislation, but reporting. Many states do not even report E.coli; They don't have to. So there can be an outbreak in your area, and the health department doesn't have to let anyone know!
Moderator at 2:56pm ET
Thank you Rainer Mueller for joining us. Do you have any final thoughts?
Rainer Mueller at 2:57pm ET
Thank you for giving me this opportunity to address this vital issue. The more forums like this that become available, the more people will learn. And knowledge is power!
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